Discuss Odysseus's actions as a leader. When does he make mistakes and when does he act wisely? When he makes a "bad move" what other course of action might have yielded a better outcome?
85 comments:
Anonymous
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Odysseus is a good leader because he knows what to tell his men and he acts quickly to most situations he is put in. I think he makes many mistakes and most of those are due to his arrogance, he likes to boast about his accomplishments and it puts him in greater danger than before. He acts wisely to get out of the huge mess he already got into, but if he wasnt arrogant in the first place he wouldnt have been there. Whenever he makes bad moves he could probably have been able to avoid it by keeping his mouth shut or better handling his men. If i was him when i went up against something as formidable as a cyclops i would have kept my mouth shut and sailed away knowing that i wouldnt die.
Odysseus's actions as a leader were strong. He always wanted to lead his people. He was like the "Moses of his time". He makes mistakes when he tries to help his people but ends up getting trapped in the cave, but he acts wisely by tricking the Cyclops into freeing him and his men. Another course of action would've been to just not have gone there in the first place.
Albert, You offer a really great insight into Odysseus's character. He is VERY arrogant. So, do you believe that he can be an effective hero despite this huge character flaw? Do you think that he will learn from his mistake?
Jamie, Who is him? Your comment needs to offer a lot more detail and support. Is Odysseus really acting wisely when he gets Cyclops drunk or is he just trying to correct a mistake?
Alex, What other qualities make Odysseus a strong leader? It seems as though he leads some of the men to their deaths. How do you predict that he will learn from his mistakes and make better choices in Part 2?
I dont think that he will learn much from his mistake because when they go past the sirens instead of clogging his ears with wax like the rest of his men have been ordered, he insteads ties himself to the ships mast and listens to the song. His men save him from almost jumping off of the ship when he finally breaks free. I think he can be an effective hero despite this though because he has many positive traits. He is very cunning and uses this to get out of most of his situations, besides that he places values in his men and semi thinks of them as his equal, he atleast values their lives and tries to help them when he can. So, all in all i think his positive traits even out or surpass his negative ones.
Alex, What other qualities make Odysseus a strong leader? It seems as though he leads some of the men to their deaths. How do you predict that he will learn from his mistakes and make better choices in Part 2? ___________________________________
Other Qualities that make him a god leader are that he is strong (Physically and Mentally). No matter what he goes through, he is always back with his feet planted firmly on the ground ready to fight and protect his people. He will learn from this by making better choices of where to go and where to lead his men.
Odysseus's actions as a leader were good but not great.His leadership was bad when he got him and his men trapped in the Cyclops's cave, but he overcame that with much better leadership by tricking the Cyclops and setting his men free. Another flaw in Odysseus's leadership is his cockiness. If it were not for Odysseus yelling his name to the Cyclops after he escaped he may not have been tortured by Poseidon .Another trait that can balance his cockiness out is his physical and mental strength.I believe that Odysseus would be a great hero although his leadership is a bit flawed.
odysseus is a strong leader. he makes mistakes but the turnes out for the better. he has to make hard disisions to reach his goal but in the end he reaches his distination
Odysseus's actions as a leader were good because he knew how to tell his men what they needed to know and knowing the quickest ways out of dangerous situations. For he knew if only a little bit of his men was going to die compared to his ship being totally destroyed and losing all of his men. he knows how to act quickly under pressure. he makes mistakes when he opens his mouth and brags about himself. he acts wisely when it comes to making big decisions.any action that would of cousre put him in danger in the first place could of been stopped.
Odysseus is a gret leader because he has great edvice and knows what to say. He acts wisley when it comes to very difficult taks. And i think he make many mistakes mostly when because sometimes he can put hisself at great danger.
Channing, You have not addressed the entire question. While Odysseus is a good leader, he is VERY flawed. Read some of the other comments to find some of those undesirable traits. Try thinking a little harder and digging a little deeper. You are viewing him only on the surface.
Ginger, Good post. Odysseus does act quickly, but he would not need to act at all if his flaws didn't bring danger to him and his men. Be more specific...what exactly could he have done to stop the bad experiences that he encountered on his journey?
Albert i agree with you. odysseus is very arrogant.but then you have to look at all the traits that make him a good hero.when there is danger a-foot he is quick witted.he can weasel his way out of any situation.even though he is tortured by poseidon and put through all those challenges.yet every challenge that poseidon threw at odysseus he was quick to finding a way out of the situation.
miss singleton true if he didnt open his big mouth in the first place and speak his mind then he wouldnt of gotten into all those dangers.but you have to take that into consideration everyone has a flaw or more no one is perfect. and another thing to take into consideration is that if he never would have the flaw of having a big mouth then who knows he may of never became a great leader or a king. he would probably be one of the few men staying home in greece during the war or he would probably be the smallest soldier on the "food chain" of the army for greece.so yes it was a good thing he has that flaw because we never know how a person turns out if they dont have a certain thing about them. right?
I think Odysseus was wise, yet stupid when he acts on his feet. I mean, it's good that he knows what to do at any given time. It's very useful, actually. But, the fact is, he acts before he really thinks. And, therefore, in the story, he makes really careless mistakes that gets him back into trouble, just as soon as he gets out. So, I have to say, Odysseus is only half-hero. If kids were to look up to him, the world would come crashing down even faster than it already is, but I'm getting off topic. On the other hand, kids would have more self-confidence and be able to fight their own battles, rather than having a friend or parent do it for them. Odysseus' "bad moves" show what happens when you think on your feet. Though, thinking on his feet did get him out of the clutches of the evil Cyclops.
Albert, I really do like the insight you have into this character because I feel you can almost relate to Odysseus in a way. It's the choices in the end and proving that we care about those descisions that state whether or not that we know if we are true heroes.
I can only half-agree that Odysseus is a true hero, though. Because a hero is not necessarily a leader, and his choices are sometimes more in leadership form than a hero form. He is not the best leader act, but I think that while he decides he is the hero through his actions, he acts more as a poor leader. Personality-wise, Odysseus is more hero than anything, however. I find this certain proof that who we are in the inside and on the outside are two totally and completely different things. More than anything, I believe that his "bad moves" have a dominoe affect- for the better- on the general outcome of the story. His wisdom doesn't necessarily make up for his mistakes, but it earns him respect and personal dignity.
Odysseus as a leader was very high spirted and clever. He manages to anger the gods alot in the story even though they have a lot influence on the ancient greek culture. His ego may come off strong but his antics are for the better of his people.
Keonna, Odysseus makes mistakes in order for another greater cause. Everything he does he seems to have a plan for it all to work out at the end which is why I say you must look past his arrogance in order to figure out his true intentions
Odysseus is a great leader because he can react real fast even in the toughest situations. I think one of his mistakes was to upset the god by blinding cyclops. Though he did make a good move when he tied hiself under the ram to escape from the cave. I could not be Odysseus.
I belive that Odysseus has a problem with his ego. He seems to think that he is the best of the best although he does have very good ideas at time. He made a huge mistake when he went to go look at Cyclops. That risk costed him the lives of his fellow crew mates. Although this risk was taken he was also able to manuever his remaining men out of the Cyclops' cave and back to the ship taking with him some sheep and ram. Then his ego came into the picture while he was sailing away. He was screaming his name and where he is from when he should have just sailed away in peace so the God Poseiden would not be as mad. He could have yielded a better outcome if he had just stayed in his ship with his men and not explored the Cyclops' land.
Odysseus is a good leader because he knows what he wants and needs to get though a mission. some of his mistakes were that some of his man had to die. The other course of action that was wise was giving cyclops the wine , and tricking him to opening up the door.
He acted wisely when he was able to get his men out of the cave and away from Cyclops. He mde a mistake when he yelled from the boat, tempting Cyclops, nearly get his men killed. If he had not yelled out at Cyclops boosting, then Cyclops wouldn't know where he was in turn not imdangering his men.
Odysseus makes a mistake when he decides to visit the Lotus Island. He should never have gone to that island or at least never have let his men eat the flowers. He has a good idea when he decides to hang onto the bottom of the rams bellies to escape from the cave and get off the cyclops island. I think he cared very much about his mens well being and hated to see them die. He wanted them all to make it home safe to Ithica.
Jamie who is HIM? When you said "Odysseus makes a bad mistake when he makes him mad." The rest sounds good except when you use HIM. Whos him. Use names!!!
Odysseus's actions as a leader were both wise and bad. One of the mistakes he made was getting his men trapped in a cave with the Cyclops. This cost Odysseus the lives of some of his best crew mates. This was followed by a clever move. He tricked the cyclops into letting him go by tieing him and his men to th cyclop's sheep and escaping while the cyclops was still blind. However Odysseus made yet another bad move by yelling his name out to the cyclops. This caused the cyclop's father Poseidon to terrorize Odysseus and his crew with violent sea storms. Wiser actions could have been not to stay and wait for the cyclops in the cave and not to have yelled his name out to the Cyclops. Although Odysseus is flawed greatly he is still a great leader because he saved most of his men from certain death.
Odysseus always makes a mistake some how or another. But that mistake is what brings him to the place his now. He always makes the situation 10x better from the mistake. like when he fought the cyclops. he made the mistake to bring his men TO the cyclops.. he should have just made the cyclops come to them..
but at least from that mistake he got to blind the cyclops
I agree with you Chad. No matter what happens to Odysseus and his men Odysseus always has a plan. It's kinda like he could predict the moves of his enemies.
Odysseus's actions as a leader are very strategic.He made a mistake when he gave the cyclops his real name.A wiseley action of Odysseus was when he thought of a way to get out of the cave that.When he makes bad moves he should think about them and not make the same mistake over again.
His actions as a leader helped him get home he drove his men away from the lotus eaters he blinded the cyclops. When he used an alias was a smart move but he shouldn't of said anything so poeisidon woldnt hut him.
Odysseus is a good leader, because he can be real witty and come up with real solution such as escaping the cyclopes home, he made some bad moves due to him wanting tot get home, such as ghiving up his men to that goddesss who took 6 men.
Odysseus's actions was of heroic extent, but not as an leader. I think Odysseus was more of a selfish leader if he was one. He cared for his kingdom, his throne, and wife more then a system of democracy if there was any in Ithaca. He makes smart moves for his suvival but , bousterous moves for his pride and kingdom. His ego made have been his leadership , more then real leadership for his men and people for his kingdom to lead him home.
Chad , the greater cause for Odysseus was getting home. I think Odysseus would rather return home as the last survivor, then he would be more worshiped as an god like Hero from overcoming impossible odds, then to try to save every last person of returning home. His ego got the best of him.
Miss Singleton, the flaws of Odysseus to name a few is his pride, his ego, his phyiscal presence which lead that he could do anything , and his competivness. He was like a soar winner, he would beat you while bragging, the next game u new you would lose, but didn't like the fact he was always say how good he is or he was going to win anyway, until u got tired of him and didn't want to play a game with Odysseus anymore. He was a natural winner but he ego wanted more. He got more but lose his people in the act. In the book it shows a lot of times of how his men didn't complety trust him or believe. His competive and physical edge made him to go into dangerous situations but his men had no chance.
Odysseus was a very good leader. He was strong and confident. He doesn't lack being on time when he needs to be doing something. He always reacts quickly. However, Odysseus always puts himself in alot of danger due to some of his actions. He likes to brag and it gets him into deeper and deeper trouble. But he does save himself most of the time by using his brain. Whenever he makes bad moves he could have chosen another path by handling the situation more maturely and watching his mouth more closely. I think he should have taken the easy way out and saved him and his men all some trouble because he knew he could not take on the men that were stronger than him. He was lucky this time but maybe next time that wont be the case.
Odysseus was a great man just his decisions got him into a bit of trouble but he could have prevented this by taking another path and thinking before he says something but his "bad" choice was to take the wrong path and almost kill all of his men. He does act wise though by tricking the giant into letting him and his men free. So all in all he makes good choices just sometimes happens to get mixed up with the wrong things at the wrong time.
Odysseus's actions as a leader were strong. He always wanted to lead his people.He makes mistakes when he tries to help his people but ends up getting trapped in the cave.Then he acts wisely by tricking the Cyclops into freeing him and his men. Another course of action would have been to not make those mistakes.
Odysseus is a good leader because he knows what to tell his men and he acts quickly to most situations he is put in.He acts wisely to get out of the huge mess he already such as in the case of the cyclopes in the cave.But if he wasnt arrogant in the first place they proberly would have never met the cyclopes. Also his quick wits saved him and most of his men from the cyclops. He proberly would have escaped on his ship unharmed if he had not been boasting and alerted the cyclopes to their position. Albert what is in your blog makes absolute sense he is a good leader
Wow, i guess its kinda nice having everyone agree with me. i agree that im mainly only looking at the bad things, but if he didnt have so many flaws he wouldnt have made so many huge mistakes. if he didnt try to brag about everything it wouldnt have taken him 20 years to get home. i think that he is wise though and that he can act well under pressure, besides that he values human life, though not very much. he ends up sacrificing all of his men in his attempt to get home and between 12 ships thats a lot of people to die for him. i think that more of his people could have been saved if he wasnt so curious, him being curious wasnt really a bad thing but sometimes you should just know when there isnt time to poke your nose into other things. i think he was kinda self centered and it makes sense since most greek stories made huge flaws to make themselves feel better, kinda sad but atleast it boosted their self esteem. thanks for the feedback pples.
He was there for his soilders when they needed him the most. He shouldn't have had went in the cave but when they were stuck he didn't stop at nothing to get them out.
Odysseus makefs many decisions and the ones for curiosity usually lead him into disaster. The only time he really makes wise decisions is when they deal with sneak attacks and retreating from harm to save more of his men. When he makes a bad move the one way to get him out of it is ability to decieve.
Odysseus was an ok leader becaus he knew what to tell his troops and he acted quickly to situations. He makes some mistakes because of his BIIIIG ego. Like when he told Polyphemus EXACTLY who he was. He was wise when he stabbed the cyclops eye out with the stake. And when he devised the false name, and the plan to escape the cyclops. A bad move he made was shouting to Polyphemus. He should have kept his mouth shut. That way Posiedon would not have known who he was maybe...
Miss singelton you are right that odysseus has many different qualities and that they all play a certain part of the story. So they need to be more properly stated.
I believe that Odysseus is a good leader. But he tends to get him and his men into loads of trouble. He makes his mistakes with his curiousity the most i believe. He chose to stay and wait for the Cyclops instead of just raiding the place and leaving with all of his men. Since he chose to do this him and his men were captured and some of the got ate. He acted wisely though when he chose not to eat the lotus flower and when he tricked the Cyclops. So overall I do believe that Odysseus was a good leader.
Odysseus.. was a influential leader to his kingdom but was not a true role model to his men. I think Odysseus hated his flaws he knew what would to come of curosity : unknown situations, boustfulness: anger to others, and i really think he most prize flaw was his postion. Homer wrote a book about a King taking home average soldiers. A king isn't suppose to be in war or even have have to take a ride home with danger so all his men found out There king's flaws which ultimatly will ruin his kingdom. You don't want you people know who u really are as a king there should be no weankness but showing them proves deadly.
By the way guys anonymous is Michaela F..... also i completely agree with you robert about Odysseus' talent for thinking under pressure but do you agree that he has an enormous ego??
odysseus there is many flaws against this one war hero. but we really need to realize somthing. america is pretty much doing the same thing that odysseus did. we are a good country as for he is a good man. but we could be saving so many lives right now just like he could of in the story. because we weren't so curious about if iraq may having weapons of mass distruction then we would never have to be in this "War on Terror". also if we never thought we had to "show other countries up" then we would also be saving so much more lives. yet like i said before if we weren't such a great, brave, curious country then we may of not been where we are today. we may of been controlled by the british still. but for our country having "guts" we are free. we are just like odysseus. i wonder if that is what miss singleton is trying to get us to relize...
It seems that Odysseus is a pretty good leader, but his curiosity always seems to get his men and himself into trouble. He makes the biggest mistakes and always boast about his solutions that he thought of, when really all he was doing was fixing his own mistakes.
I think that Odyssurs makes many mistakes because of him and his arrogance. And whenever he brags about all that he's done it puts him in even more danger.
Odysseus acts wisely when he finds a way to fix the mistakes he made. He is a good leader, because he knows how to act quickly when he is put in a situation.
He is a good leader and yet he acts like a bad leader too. His curiosity gets him and his men in trouble. If he wasn't so curious maybe he would have his whole crew. He acts wisely when he saves the rest of the crew by giving the Cyclops a false name that way when the others come to help him and when the others ask him who did this to him he says "Nohbdy, Nohbdy did this to me! Nohbdy ruined me!" The others think that nobody did anything to him. This was a good plan to save his men. What was bad for him was that he wanted to live so he let the crew get eaten even though he didn't want his crew eaten. But that was a good thing because if he were to kill him the cyclops would block the entrance and none of them would ever get out. israel
Odysseus's actions were kind of irresponsible. He made a wise choice when he told the Cyclops that his name was Nohbdy. That way, he could cheat the Cyclops out of the cattle and when the cyclops called for help, all he could say was,"Nohbdy has tricked me." The other cyclopes would then think that nobody has tricked Cyclops and leave. He made a bad move when he told the Cyclops his real name, father, and place where he lived. He didn't realize what he was doing. He was overwhelmed with pride. If there was some kind of treasure, that would have slowed Odysseus down, too.
Odysseus is a strong, courageous leader.One of the mistakes odysseus makes as a leader was getting his men stuck in the cave. But he wisely got his men out with out getting caught. It was also a mistake shouting out his real name. Better actions would have been to steal something from the cyclops before he got back to the cave. He should not have shouted his name.
Matthew, You bring up an interesting point. It is important for us to keep in mind that Odysseus is a human being and not a god or dangerous creature. Do you think that Odysseus feels as though he is invincible as he faces each of these foes on the journey?
Odyesseus is a good leader because he has accomplished many goals and has encountered many enemies.He makes mistakes by not telling his men what there about to encounter and by not preparing his men for battle.Even though these mistakes are made he is still able to get him and his men out of any trouble he puts them into.I think some of his mistakes could be avoided by just being more humble and respecting his men more.
I think Odysseus makes a good move when he doesnt tell his men about Scylla because i believe they wouldve "freaked out". But a bad move he made was when he tried to refuse to bring them to shore for rest and food.
I think that Odysseus wasn't a hero, wasn't a role model, to me Odysseus wasn't the leader of the group but the one who people trust. There was anger among his men in the group and drama started. His most outrageous mistake was having his men in his hands, their lifes. When one person die his men began to distrust him. More deaths they could of throw him off the boat. He should of made more order like military order instead of ruling all of him he could have captains and such. I think they blame him for them mens death , he was a king, the best one ever and he could save his life or his.. adds up.
He makes bad mistakes, but he makes up his mistakes. If he wasn't so curious and arrogant he wouldn't have lost any of his men in part I. Due to his curiousity he had to sacrifice some of his men to the cyclops. He does make it up by saving the rest of his men by tricking the cyclops, blinding the cyclops, and escaping on the bottom of the the sheep. Israel
Albert, I definately agree with you. Odysseus was a good leader and he did do alot of things right. Although somtimes he made bad moves but in the end he turned out to do a pretty good job.
A.S.Hodges, You are right i dont think he will learn much from his mistakes either he just keeps on listening to his ego and getting himself and his crew in trouble
WOW Ginger that is a huge thought about america, and i agree completely. if our nation wasnt so prideful they would have no need to try to act like the top country all the time, but like you said if they hadnt back then, then we might still be under british rule or some other crazy country. there are a lot of mistakes that every person or country makes though, and i bet a lot of people wish they could go back and change what they did wrong. the problem is you cant, when you screw up, you can try to fix it, and sometimes you suceed, but most of the times you are screwed.
85 comments:
Odysseus is a good leader because he knows what to tell his men and he acts quickly to most situations he is put in. I think he makes many mistakes and most of those are due to his arrogance, he likes to boast about his accomplishments and it puts him in greater danger than before. He acts wisely to get out of the huge mess he already got into, but if he wasnt arrogant in the first place he wouldnt have been there. Whenever he makes bad moves he could probably have been able to avoid it by keeping his mouth shut or better handling his men. If i was him when i went up against something as formidable as a cyclops i would have kept my mouth shut and sailed away knowing that i wouldnt die.
Odysseus makes a bad mistake when he makes him mad.
Odysseus acts wisley when he gives him wine and drinks to make him sleepy and to make it easier to get everything ready.
Odysseus's actions as a leader were strong. He always wanted to lead his people. He was like the "Moses of his time". He makes mistakes when he tries to help his people but ends up getting trapped in the cave, but he acts wisely by tricking the Cyclops into freeing him and his men. Another course of action would've been to just not have gone there in the first place.
Albert,
You offer a really great insight into Odysseus's character. He is VERY arrogant. So, do you believe that he can be an effective hero despite this huge character flaw? Do you think that he will learn from his mistake?
Jamie,
Who is him? Your comment needs to offer a lot more detail and support. Is Odysseus really acting wisely when he gets Cyclops drunk or is he just trying to correct a mistake?
Miss Singleton,
Now that you have said that, I do think he was trying to correct a mistake.
Alex,
What other qualities make Odysseus a strong leader? It seems as though he leads some of the men to their deaths. How do you predict that he will learn from his mistakes and make better choices in Part 2?
I dont think that he will learn much from his mistake because when they go past the sirens instead of clogging his ears with wax like the rest of his men have been ordered, he insteads ties himself to the ships mast and listens to the song. His men save him from almost jumping off of the ship when he finally breaks free. I think he can be an effective hero despite this though because he has many positive traits. He is very cunning and uses this to get out of most of his situations, besides that he places values in his men and semi thinks of them as his equal, he atleast values their lives and tries to help them when he can. So, all in all i think his positive traits even out or surpass his negative ones.
Alex,
What other qualities make Odysseus a strong leader? It seems as though he leads some of the men to their deaths. How do you predict that he will learn from his mistakes and make better choices in Part 2?
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Other Qualities that make him a god leader are that he is strong
(Physically and Mentally). No matter what he goes through, he is always back with his feet planted firmly on the ground ready to fight and protect his people. He will learn from this by making better choices of where to go and where to lead his men.
Odysseus's actions as a leader were good but not great.His leadership was bad when he got him and his men trapped in the Cyclops's cave, but he overcame that with much better leadership by tricking the Cyclops and setting his men free. Another flaw in Odysseus's leadership is his cockiness. If it were not for Odysseus yelling his name to the Cyclops after he escaped he may not have been tortured by Poseidon .Another trait that can balance his cockiness out is his physical and mental strength.I believe that Odysseus would be a great hero although his leadership is a bit flawed.
odysseus is a strong leader. he makes mistakes but the turnes out for the better. he has to make hard disisions to reach his goal but in the end he reaches his distination
Odysseus's actions as a leader were good because he knew how to tell his men what they needed to know and knowing the quickest ways out of dangerous situations. For he knew if only a little bit of his men was going to die compared to his ship being totally destroyed and losing all of his men. he knows how to act quickly under pressure. he makes mistakes when he opens his mouth and brags about himself. he acts wisely when it comes to making big decisions.any action that would of cousre put him in danger in the first place could of been stopped.
Odysseus is a gret leader because he has great edvice and knows what to say. He acts wisley when it comes to very difficult taks. And i think he make many mistakes mostly when because sometimes he can put hisself at great danger.
Channing,
You have not addressed the entire question. While Odysseus is a good leader, he is VERY flawed. Read some of the other comments to find some of those undesirable traits. Try thinking a little harder and digging a little deeper. You are viewing him only on the surface.
Ginger,
Good post. Odysseus does act quickly, but he would not need to act at all if his flaws didn't bring danger to him and his men. Be more specific...what exactly could he have done to stop the bad experiences that he encountered on his journey?
Albert
i agree with you. odysseus is very arrogant.but then you have to look at all the traits that make him a good hero.when there is danger a-foot he is quick witted.he can weasel his way out of any situation.even though he is tortured by poseidon and put through all those challenges.yet every challenge that poseidon threw at odysseus he was quick to finding a way out of the situation.
Keonna,
You need to provide evidence from the text to support your answer, and be sure to answer the entire question.
miss singleton
true if he didnt open his big mouth in the first place and speak his mind then he wouldnt of gotten into all those dangers.but you have to take that into consideration everyone has a flaw or more no one is perfect. and another thing to take into consideration is that if he never would have the flaw of having a big mouth then who knows he may of never became a great leader or a king. he would probably be one of the few men staying home in greece during the war or he would probably be the smallest soldier on the "food chain" of the army for greece.so yes it was a good thing he has that flaw because we never know how a person turns out if they dont have a certain thing about them. right?
I think Odysseus was wise, yet stupid when he acts on his feet. I mean, it's good that he knows what to do at any given time. It's very useful, actually. But, the fact is, he acts before he really thinks. And, therefore, in the story, he makes really careless mistakes that gets him back into trouble, just as soon as he gets out.
So, I have to say, Odysseus is only half-hero. If kids were to look up to him, the world would come crashing down even faster than it already is, but I'm getting off topic.
On the other hand, kids would have more self-confidence and be able to fight their own battles, rather than having a friend or parent do it for them.
Odysseus' "bad moves" show what happens when you think on your feet. Though, thinking on his feet did get him out of the clutches of the evil Cyclops.
You decide, Odysseus, Hero or Villain?
Albert, I really do like the insight you have into this character because I feel you can almost relate to Odysseus in a way. It's the choices in the end and proving that we care about those descisions that state whether or not that we know if we are true heroes.
I can only half-agree that Odysseus is a true hero, though. Because a hero is not necessarily a leader, and his choices are sometimes more in leadership form than a hero form. He is not the best leader act, but I think that while he decides he is the hero through his actions, he acts more as a poor leader. Personality-wise, Odysseus is more hero than anything, however.
I find this certain proof that who we are in the inside and on the outside are two totally and completely different things. More than anything, I believe that his "bad moves" have a dominoe affect- for the better- on the general outcome of the story. His wisdom doesn't necessarily make up for his mistakes, but it earns him respect and personal dignity.
Odysseus as a leader was very high spirted and clever. He manages to anger the gods alot in the story even though they have a lot influence on the ancient greek culture. His ego may come off strong but his antics are for the better of his people.
Keonna,
Odysseus makes mistakes in order for another greater cause. Everything he does he seems to have a plan for it all to work out at the end which is why I say you must look past his arrogance in order to figure out his true intentions
Odysseus is a great leader because he can react real fast even in the toughest situations. I think one of his mistakes was to upset the god by blinding cyclops. Though he did make a good move when he tied hiself under the ram to escape from the cave. I could not be Odysseus.
Albert i agree Odysseus is a very good leader and acts quickley.
I belive that Odysseus has a problem with his ego. He seems to think that he is the best of the best although he does have very good ideas at time. He made a huge mistake when he went to go look at Cyclops. That risk costed him the lives of his fellow crew mates. Although this risk was taken he was also able to manuever his remaining men out of the Cyclops' cave and back to the ship taking with him some sheep and ram. Then his ego came into the picture while he was sailing away. He was screaming his name and where he is from when he should have just sailed away in peace so the God Poseiden would not be as mad. He could have yielded a better outcome if he had just stayed in his ship with his men and not explored the Cyclops' land.
Odysseus is a good leader because he knows what he wants and needs to get though a mission. some of his mistakes were that some of his man had to die. The other course of action that was wise was giving cyclops the wine , and tricking him to opening up the door.
He acted wisely when he was able to get his men out of the cave and away from Cyclops. He mde a mistake when he yelled from the boat, tempting Cyclops, nearly get his men killed. If he had not yelled out at Cyclops boosting, then Cyclops wouldn't know where he was in turn not imdangering his men.
Albert I also agree with that if he would not boost so much then he would not be but into many of the dangers he gets in.
Odysseus makes a mistake when he decides to visit the Lotus Island. He should never have gone to that island or at least never have let his men eat the flowers. He has a good idea when he decides to hang onto the bottom of the rams bellies to escape from the cave and get off the cyclops island. I think he cared very much about his mens well being and hated to see them die. He wanted them all to make it home safe to Ithica.
Jamie who is HIM? When you said "Odysseus makes a bad mistake when he makes him mad." The rest sounds good except when you use HIM. Whos him. Use names!!!
Odysseus's actions as a leader were both wise and bad. One of the mistakes he made was getting his men trapped in a cave with the Cyclops. This cost Odysseus the lives of some of his best crew mates. This was followed by a clever move. He tricked the cyclops into letting him go by tieing him and his men to th cyclop's sheep and escaping while the cyclops was still blind. However Odysseus made yet another bad move by yelling his name out to the cyclops. This caused the cyclop's father Poseidon to terrorize Odysseus and his crew with violent sea storms. Wiser actions could have been not to stay and wait for the cyclops in the cave and not to have yelled his name out to the Cyclops. Although Odysseus is flawed greatly he is still a great leader because he saved most of his men from certain death.
Alex yours sounds good. I like how you compare Odysseus to Moses.
Odysseus always makes a mistake some how or another. But that mistake is what brings him to the place his now. He always makes the situation 10x better from the mistake.
like when he fought the cyclops. he made the mistake to bring his men TO the cyclops..
he should have just made the cyclops come to them..
but at least from that mistake he got to blind the cyclops
i agree with jamie
Chad,
I agree with you Chad. No matter what happens to Odysseus and his men Odysseus always has a plan. It's kinda like he could predict the moves of his enemies.
Odysseus's actions as a leader are very strategic.He made a mistake when he gave the cyclops his real name.A wiseley action of Odysseus was when he thought of a way to get out of the cave that.When he makes bad moves he should think about them and not make the same mistake over again.
His actions as a leader helped him get home he drove his men away from the lotus eaters he blinded the cyclops. When he used an alias was a smart move but he shouldn't of said anything so poeisidon woldnt hut him.
Odysseus is a good leader, because he can be real witty and come up with real solution such as escaping the cyclopes home, he made some bad moves due to him wanting tot get home, such as ghiving up his men to that goddesss who took 6 men.
Odysseus's actions was of heroic extent, but not as an leader. I think Odysseus was more of a selfish leader if he was one. He cared for his kingdom, his throne, and wife more then a system of democracy if there was any in Ithaca. He makes smart moves for his suvival but , bousterous moves for his pride and kingdom. His ego made have been his leadership , more then real leadership for his men and people for his kingdom to lead him home.
Chad , the greater cause for Odysseus was getting home. I think Odysseus would rather return home as the last survivor, then he would be more worshiped as an god like Hero from overcoming impossible odds, then to try to save every last person of returning home. His ego got the best of him.
Miss Singleton, the flaws of Odysseus to name a few is his pride, his ego, his phyiscal presence which lead that he could do anything , and his competivness. He was like a soar winner, he would beat you while bragging, the next game u new you would lose, but didn't like the fact he was always say how good he is or he was going to win anyway, until u got tired of him and didn't want to play a game with Odysseus anymore. He was a natural winner but he ego wanted more. He got more but lose his people in the act. In the book it shows a lot of times of how his men didn't complety trust him or believe. His competive and physical edge made him to go into dangerous situations but his men had no chance.
zachmastah
please explain more on your post.
i could understand everything you were saying but i know you can go deeper than that. please do.
Odysseus was a very good leader. He was strong and confident. He doesn't lack being on time when he needs to be doing something. He always reacts quickly. However, Odysseus always puts himself in alot of danger due to some of his actions. He likes to brag and it gets him into deeper and deeper trouble. But he does save himself most of the time by using his brain. Whenever he makes bad moves he could have chosen another path by handling the situation more maturely and watching his mouth more closely. I think he should have taken the easy way out and saved him and his men all some trouble because he knew he could not take on the men that were stronger than him. He was lucky this time but maybe next time that wont be the case.
Odysseus was a great man just his decisions got him into a bit of trouble but he could have prevented this by taking another path and thinking before he says something but his "bad" choice was to take the wrong path and almost kill all of his men. He does act wise though by tricking the giant into letting him and his men free. So all in all he makes good choices just sometimes happens to get mixed up with the wrong things at the wrong time.
Odysseus's actions as a leader were strong. He always wanted to lead his people.He makes mistakes when he tries to help his people but ends up getting trapped in the cave.Then he acts wisely by tricking the Cyclops into freeing him and his men. Another course of action would have been to not make those mistakes.
Odysseus is a good leader because he knows what to tell his men and he acts quickly to most situations he is put in.He acts wisely to get out of the huge mess he already such as in the case of the cyclopes in the cave.But if he wasnt arrogant in the first place they proberly would have never met the cyclopes. Also his quick wits saved him and most of his men from the cyclops. He proberly would have escaped on his ship unharmed if he had not been boasting and alerted the cyclopes to their position. Albert what is in your blog makes absolute sense he is a good leader
Wow, i guess its kinda nice having everyone agree with me. i agree that im mainly only looking at the bad things, but if he didnt have so many flaws he wouldnt have made so many huge mistakes. if he didnt try to brag about everything it wouldnt have taken him 20 years to get home. i think that he is wise though and that he can act well under pressure, besides that he values human life, though not very much. he ends up sacrificing all of his men in his attempt to get home and between 12 ships thats a lot of people to die for him. i think that more of his people could have been saved if he wasnt so curious, him being curious wasnt really a bad thing but sometimes you should just know when there isnt time to poke your nose into other things. i think he was kinda self centered and it makes sense since most greek stories made huge flaws to make themselves feel better, kinda sad but atleast it boosted their self esteem. thanks for the feedback pples.
He was there for his soilders when they needed him the most. He shouldn't have had went in the cave but when they were stuck he didn't stop at nothing to get them out.
Sarah I like you post, You explain some impotant reasons.But it need more.
i agree with bj because he didn't make a good jugement to go in the cave and the outcome was that he got most of his men eaten.
Odysseus makefs many decisions and the ones for curiosity usually lead him into disaster. The only time he really makes wise decisions is when they deal with sneak attacks and retreating from harm to save more of his men. When he makes a bad move the one way to get him out of it is ability to decieve.
Odysseus was an ok leader becaus he knew what to tell his troops and he acted quickly to situations. He makes some mistakes because of his BIIIIG ego. Like when he told Polyphemus EXACTLY who he was. He was wise when he stabbed the cyclops eye out with the stake. And when he devised the false name, and the plan to escape the cyclops. A bad move he made was shouting to Polyphemus. He should have kept his mouth shut. That way Posiedon would not have known who he was maybe...
Miss singelton you are right that odysseus has many different qualities and that they all play a certain part of the story. So they need to be more properly stated.
I believe that Odysseus is a good leader. But he tends to get him and his men into loads of trouble. He makes his mistakes with his curiousity the most i believe. He chose to stay and wait for the Cyclops instead of just raiding the place and leaving with all of his men. Since he chose to do this him and his men were captured and some of the got ate. He acted wisely though when he chose not to eat the lotus flower and when he tricked the Cyclops. So overall I do believe that Odysseus was a good leader.
odyseus was just a selfish person when he wanted to be
he also had a heroic side of him
that can relate to a lot of people that i know
this is what i think about this
Odysseus.. was a influential leader to his kingdom but was not a true role model to his men. I think Odysseus hated his flaws he knew what would to come of curosity : unknown situations, boustfulness: anger to others, and i really think he most prize flaw was his postion. Homer wrote a book about a King taking home average soldiers. A king isn't suppose to be in war or even have have to take a ride home with danger so all his men found out There king's flaws which ultimatly will ruin his kingdom. You don't want you people know who u really are as a king there should be no weankness but showing them proves deadly.
Holly.
i totally agree with you.
I dont believe that Odysseus was a true hero.
but he was a good leader though.
By the way guys anonymous is Michaela F..... also i completely agree with you robert about Odysseus' talent for thinking under pressure but do you agree that he has an enormous ego??
odysseus
there is many flaws against this one war hero.
but we really need to realize somthing. america is pretty much doing the same thing that odysseus did. we are a good country as for he is a good man. but we could be saving so many lives right now just like he could of in the story. because we weren't so curious about if iraq may having weapons of mass distruction then we would never have to be in this "War on Terror". also if we never thought we had to "show other countries up" then we would also be saving so much more lives. yet like i said before if we weren't such a great, brave, curious country then we may of not been where we are today. we may of been controlled by the british still. but for our country having "guts" we are free. we are just like odysseus. i wonder if that is what miss singleton is trying to get us to relize...
It seems that Odysseus is a pretty good leader, but his curiosity always seems to get his men and himself into trouble. He makes the biggest mistakes and always boast about his solutions that he thought of, when really all he was doing was fixing his own mistakes.
I think that Odyssurs makes many mistakes because of him and his arrogance. And whenever he brags about all that he's done it puts him in even more danger.
Ginger, i agree with what you said.
wren is right odysseus may make many mistakes but he finds ways to get out of it
Odysseus acts wisely when he finds a way to fix the mistakes he made. He is a good leader, because he knows how to act quickly when he is put in a situation.
He is a good leader and yet he acts like a bad leader too. His curiosity gets him and his men in trouble. If he wasn't so curious maybe he would have his whole crew.
He acts wisely when he saves the rest of the crew by giving the Cyclops a false name that way when the others come to help him and when the others ask him who did this to him he says "Nohbdy, Nohbdy did this to me! Nohbdy ruined me!" The others think that
nobody did anything to him. This was a good plan to save his men. What was bad for him was that he wanted to live so he let the crew get eaten even though he didn't want his crew eaten. But that was a good thing because if he were to kill him the cyclops would block the entrance and none of them would ever get out.
israel
Odysseus's actions were kind of irresponsible. He made a wise choice when he told the Cyclops that his name was Nohbdy. That way, he could cheat the Cyclops out of the cattle and when the cyclops called for help, all he could say was,"Nohbdy has tricked me." The other cyclopes would then think that nobody has tricked Cyclops and leave. He made a bad move when he told the Cyclops his real name, father, and place where he lived. He didn't realize what he was doing. He was overwhelmed with pride. If there was some kind of treasure, that would have slowed Odysseus down, too.
Odysseus is a strong, courageous leader.One of the mistakes odysseus makes as a leader was getting his men stuck in the cave. But he wisely got his men out with out getting caught. It was also a mistake shouting out his real name. Better actions would have been to steal something from the cyclops before he got back to the cave. He should not have shouted his name.
nikki
i agree with what you said it was well said!!! luv ya!
Odysseus is a good leader because although his curiousity leads him and his crew to truble his cleverness gets him out
Dre i agree wiht your comment he was smart and clever but also foolish
I agree with you albert, Odysseus was a good leader, but he did have his flaws, like all human beings.
Matthew, You bring up an interesting point. It is important for us to keep in mind that Odysseus is a human being and not a god or dangerous creature. Do you think that Odysseus feels as though he is invincible as he faces each of these foes on the journey?
Genesis, I agree with you that Odysseus is wise, but how do you think Odysseus could have yielded a better outcome???
-Michaela
Jamie,
make sure to to tell everybody who him is.
Odyesseus is a good leader because he has accomplished many goals and has encountered many enemies.He makes mistakes by not telling his men what there about to encounter and by not preparing his men for battle.Even though these mistakes are made he is still able to get him and his men out of any trouble he puts them into.I think some of his mistakes could be avoided by just being more humble and respecting his men more.
I think Odysseus makes a good move when he doesnt tell his men about Scylla because i believe they wouldve "freaked out".
But a bad move he made was when he tried to refuse to bring them to shore for rest and food.
dj, i agree with you if homer told his men what was going to happen the they coiuld revolt and throw him off the ship and sail away!
I think that Odysseus wasn't a hero, wasn't a role model, to me Odysseus wasn't the leader of the group but the one who people trust. There was anger among his men in the group and drama started. His most outrageous mistake was having his men in his hands, their lifes. When one person die his men began to distrust him. More deaths they could of throw him off the boat. He should of made more order like military order instead of ruling all of him he could have captains and such. I think they blame him for them mens death , he was a king, the best one ever and he could save his life or his.. adds up.
He makes bad mistakes, but he makes up his mistakes. If he wasn't so curious and arrogant he wouldn't have lost any of his men in part I. Due to his curiousity he had to sacrifice some of his men to the cyclops. He does make it up by saving the rest of his men by tricking the cyclops, blinding the cyclops, and escaping on the bottom of the the sheep. Israel
Nichole,
i agree with you he is a strong leader but he does make alot of mistakes along the way
Nichole,
i agree with you he is a strong leader but he does make alot of mistakes along the way
Albert,
I definately agree with you. Odysseus was a good leader and he did do alot of things right. Although somtimes he made bad moves but in the end he turned out to do a pretty good job.
Channing,
you are right. odysseus does make mistakes but he realizes that the past is the past and he decides to move on.
A.S.Hodges,
You are right i dont think he will learn much from his mistakes either he just keeps on listening to his ego and getting himself and his crew in trouble
WOW Ginger that is a huge thought about america, and i agree completely. if our nation wasnt so prideful they would have no need to try to act like the top country all the time, but like you said if they hadnt back then, then we might still be under british rule or some other crazy country. there are a lot of mistakes that every person or country makes though, and i bet a lot of people wish they could go back and change what they did wrong. the problem is you cant, when you screw up, you can try to fix it, and sometimes you suceed, but most of the times you are screwed.
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